Miscellaneous <1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[The Ranger]

A timeline where all Roman Emperors adopt the name of Augustus when they take power-Augustus, Augustus II, ect.

 

[isabella]

A timeline where all Roman Emperors adopt the name of Augustus when they take power-Augustus, Augustus II, ect.

Impossible as the Romans had at least two names and usually three or more. By the way ALL the Emperors received the title of Augustus when they became Emperors

 

[iatecreepypasta]

WI: Kingdom of Arles forms into Kingdom of Switzerland?​

What if The Kingdom of Arles formed into the Kingdom of Switzerland or a descendent became king of Switzerland could this happen?

 

[Brunaburh]

WI: Kingdom of Arles forms into Kingdom of Switzerland?​

What if The Kingdom of Arles formed into the Kingdom of Switzerland or a descendent became king of Switzerland could this happen?

That's not really how things work.

Switzerland was formed from the Swiss Confederacy, small polities that joined together into a loose federation in the 13th century, gradually getting bigger over the next 300 years. Until that happened, there was no idea of Switzerland, so there was no way a kingdom of Switzerland could be formed by the kingdom Arles which predated these events.

 

[Atterdag]

A bit ASB, but let's say that it happens: what would the results be of Carl XII accepting the peace deal in 1707 instead of invading Russia?

I think the peace wouldn't last long. Both sides would see it as a break to reorganize and bolster their forces before going at it again. Peter continues to build up St Petersburg and Russia's nascent Baltic navy, and maybe tries a campaign against the Ottomans again. Charles might get involved in the war of Spanish succession, but perhaps more likely he tries to consolidate his new vassal's rule in Poland. A new Russo-Swedish war is likey to break out again, I think within 5 years even, Poland may be the flash point for such a conflict.

 

[iatecreepypasta]

Kingdom of Arles survives in the region of Swizterland and is basically is it Switzerland could this happen

 

[Pax_Nihil]

Kingdom of Arles survives in the region of Swizterland and is basically is it Switzerland could this happen

Yes? But technically no.

 

[Fehérvári]

What if the US didn't create new states in its newly conquered territories and just kept partitioning new lands between the original thirteen colonies?

 

[vandevere]

What if the US didn't create new states in its newly conquered territories and just kept partitioning new lands between the original thirteen colonies?

Maps of the US would probably become a bloated unreadable mess...

 

[Wendell]

Assuming Napoleon's tenure as First Consul was not extended into being a life term, and assuming no empire, who would have succeeded the Corsican come 1810?

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Was looking at older threads on "What if Titus had lived?", and came upon this gem of a post:

With all that being said, here is a brief outline of what I think Titus' reign may have looked like if he had lived to the ripe old age of sixty (as was typical of his Antonine successors). This is totally conjecture, and I've based it on historical trends from this period, patterns of imperial rulership from throughout Roman history, comparison with earlier and later emperors, my understanding of the OTL reign of Domitian, and more than a little guesswork.

80-81:
The natural disasters see a huge flow of money and relief into re-settlement efforts, building projects in Rome and Italy, and other assorted public works. Vespasian is deified, and Titus and Domitian are granted numerous powers and titles.

Mid 80s:
The generosity of Titus' public works begins to have effects on the treasury, which require the institution of new taxes or the sale of imperial lands to pay. This begins to alienate the large senatorial landholders, but overall Titus' reign is still popular. The Chatti, Dacians, and Picts gradually escalate in threat level, forcing Titus to send his generals on repeated campaigns of retaliation against the barbarians. He begins to construct static border defenses, first in Germany, and later across other frontiers. This is all very expensive, and maintaining or increasing the Jewish tax would not be adequate. Additional taxes would likely be levied on imports at various stages, as well as on inheritances.

Late 80s:
The Dacian threat reaches a critical level, forcing Titus to personally travel to Moesia at the head of an army. A Roman victory is certain, but depending on the number of tactical defeats the legions suffer, it may take a decade or more to adequately address this threat. In the meantime, some of the armies mutiny after being forced to build walls, march through swampy forests with no possibility for looting, and Titus is forced to raise their pay and/or shorten their term of service. Both of these will place a drain on the state treasury. Ongoing campaigns in Britannia will have the same effect, drawing increasing amounts of manpower and money out of the treasury.

Early 90s:
A coherent opposition has formed in the senate. They probably point out how Titus was raised with the household of Claudius, and how his father was loved by Nero, and these memories of his predecessors are used to try and tarnish his reputation. This opposition may vary in threat level, depending on how easily they are able to incorporate the officer corps of the Flavians. Men like Agricola, Trajan, Antonius Saturninus, Julius Frontinus, Marius Celsus, Caesennius Paetus would be crucial to this power play. If any of them join a conspiracy, it immediately becomes viable due to their military prowess and respect from the legions. If a conspiracy forms, Titus is sure to find out, and if he is still in Dacia, he will rely on his brother and cousin to maintain order in Rome (or else return to Rome himself and leave Domitian in command of Dacia). He has now been in power for ten years, and he will need an heir if his reign is to be secure. He would certainly turn to any children of Domitian first, and if there are no suitable candidates there, he would adopt one or more of his nephews.

Mid 90s:
Titus' service in the praetorian guard during his father's reign becomes crucial as he consolidates control over them, thus ensuring his regime in Rome is on solid footing. However, this may also necessitate a pay increase for the praetorians, further straining the treasury. Loot from Dacia and the capture of slaves may offset some of this, but given how expensive the army was to maintain, new income sources will have to be found. Titus will likely turn to annexing Arabia Petraea at this point, since a sizable source of income could be drawn from import tariffs which transit the province. He may do the same to any remaining eastern client states (Commagena, Lesser Armenia, etc.) for the same reasons. If this is not enough, Titus will be forced to "encourage" legacies from many wealthy senators. This may come in the form of strategic marriages or purges of his opponents. Each of those will obviously have different effects on how his reign is characterized historically.

Late 90s:
The financial state of the empire is improving considerably, but the Dacian threat remains. Titus is pressured by elements within the empire to finally put a stop to the Dacian menace and bring the territory into the empire as a province. This may take time, but as mentioned before, the Dacians have no answer to the overwhelming might of the empire. They will fall eventually, and his lieutenants serving in this war will be the major players of imperial politics in the coming years. This likely includes men like Trajan, Ceionius Commodus, Avidius Nigrinus, and obviously Titus' eventual heir. Domitian has, this whole time, been serving as one of Titus' generals in Germania or Syria and has gained a reputation for discipline and rigor (not unlike the long-dead Marius). He will not be seen as a brilliant general so much as a ruthless one, prosecuting Rome's foreign wars to their bloody conclusion. Due to the dangers of this job, Domitian will likely die before Titus due to wounds sustained in battle or disease. If he has a son, he will certainly be adopted by Titus, and if he had a daughter, even her husband stands a chance at succeeding Titus. It would probably benefit Titus to intermarry the two branches of the Flavian family (i.e. have the son of Domitian marry his own daughter or the daughter of Flavius Clemens) in order to consolidate power.

Early 100s:
Titus, at this point, is probably too old to be commanding legions personally, and he trusts this to his sons-in-law, nephews-in-law, and heirs-apparent, thus preventing any single legionary commander from gaining too much control over any of the legions. As unruly subordinates jockey for greater influence among the growing number of Flavian nobles, Titus is forced to restrict access to the consulship to members and allies of his own family, making the consulship even more of a tool for political kickbacks than it already was. However, this will also encourage opposition from the traditional Italian aristocracy, who regard the consulship as their birthright. Titus would probably attempt to divide them against one another by favoring a few families at the expense of the rest, forming a tight clique of his own allies and a massive senatorial majority unable to reach the praetorships. As an additional means of restricting the influence of difficult nobles, Titus makes increasing use of freedmen and equites in administering the empire.

Mid 100s:
Titus, having lived a long life, dies after 25 years on the throne, surpassing Tiberius and becoming the 2nd-longest reigning Roman emperor. He has guided Rome through a crucial transitionary period, and his successor, let's call him Domitianus the younger, comes to power entering the golden age of the Roman empire. Titus is probably remembered as having started off his reign energetic and generous before growing more and more greedy and cruel with age, forced to eschew many Roman political norms for simple expediency. He is viewed as a pragmatic emperor. Good, but not terrible, much like Vespasian or Claudius. Above all, he is praised for his financial good sense, although many historians note his continuation of the troubling precedent of increasing the army's pay as being one of the contributors to later imperial crises. People on AH.com will forever ask the question: What if all the stress of Titus' first years had killed him and his brother Domitian came to power?

My one contribution to that thread, at large -- Titus did have a daughter, and TTL it's unlikely that her husband will be killed as he was OTL; meaning she's likely to give Titus a grandchild (probably born somewhere in the early to mid 80's CE). If said grandchild is a boy, then that's the person Titus will want to see eventually assume the throne. However, he's likely to have someone else assume the throne first if he dies while said grandchild is still too young; as such, he may name the boy's now-alive father, Sabinus, to be his direct heir.

 

[Auyawi Nivwo]

What if the US didn't create new states in its newly conquered territories and just kept partitioning new lands between the original thirteen colonies?

This sort of happening in Look to the West. There are 5 original commonwealths of New England, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Carolina IIRC that basically claim all land to the west of themselves until the 1850s or something like that where those parts are detached to form new commonwealths

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

So something I just realized -- and I'm going to hold off before starting one myself, if anyone else wants to jump in -- but apparently this forum has never had a discussion on "What if the brutal Roman defeat at Arausio (105 BC) never happened?". I found this a bit surprising, considering that said battle is considered one of Rome's most crushing military defeats in her history, and would play a key role in the future career of Gaius Marius.

EDIT ADD: Also, yet to be done -- while the board has discussed whether and how the Italian Allies might have prevailed in the Social War, there doesn't seem to be any discussion touching on how the break out could have been delayed, say by at least a decade; given it had been nearly a decade since the crucial consecutive consulships of Gaius Marius when war did come, that seems like it would be a potentially interesting scenario. For example, suppose that Marcus Livius Drusus hadn't been assassinated (in 91 BC)? (Even if that PoD would be too late to significantly delay the war, a starting even as early as 99 BC to delay conflict until, say, 78 BC, would mean that the republic as Marius remade it would enjoy a full extra decade of peace before being forced to reform itself again.)

 

[Wendell]

What if someone other than Napoleon leads the Brumaire coup?

 

[HortenseMancini]

What if someone other than Napoleon leads the Brumaire coup?

I thought the whole point of 18 Brumaire was to bring Napoleon specifically to power?

 

[Wendell]

I thought the whole point of 18 Brumaire was to bring Napoleon specifically to power?

It was to bring a new regime into power. Emmanuel Sieyes hoped to be the dominant player in the new order, but the general who led the actual coup had other ideas and the rest is history.

 

[isabella]

I thought the whole point of 18 Brumaire was to bring Napoleon specifically to power?

Not really as the coup was planned by Sieyès BEFORE the return of Napoleon from Egypt, but he needed a competent general for leading the coup (Moreau and Joubert were taken in consideration before Napoleon’s return)… Only Sieyès at the end discovered too late who Napoleon was no pawn and he had no way to control him and so was fora ed to leave the top spot (who he had planned fior himself, keeping Napoleon only as ceremonial figurehead) to Bonaparte

 

[Wendell]

Not really as the coup was planned by Sieyès BEFORE the return of Napoleon from Egypt, but he needed a competent general for leading the coup (Moreau and Joubert were taken in consideration before Napoleon’s return)… Only Sieyès at the end discovered too late who Napoleon was no pawn and he had no way to control him and so was fora ed to leave the top spot (who he had planned fior himself, keeping Napoleon only as ceremonial figurehead) to Bonaparte

One does wonder how things might've developed with a Joubert or Moreau-led Brumaire coup.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

What if instead of dying of a blood clot he dies 20 years of a sudden fever. How does the empire change with the last strong emperor of the west ruling for an extra 20 years? Can he reform the empire to not make it collapse in the west? Can he save his brother from doom at adrianople? Can he make his sons competen?

Also note to self (or to anyone else who wants to beat me to it) -- this question needs to get a real discussion thread. I mean seriously, I know he was technically "only" the Western Roman Emperor, but he was unambiguously the senior of his brother while they both reigned, meaning that, with the exception of a very brief window of time towards the end of Theodosius' reign, this was the last time the Empire was effectively unified. And considering just how much started going wrong almost immediately after his death, you would think this site would be more curious as to what would have changed had he still been alive.

Anyway, rant over; I'll do a thread at some point when I get to it, unless someone starts one first.

 

[Arkenfolm]

It's common to encounter references to certain Buddhist schools like Japanese Nichiren or Vietnamese Truc Lam as nationalistic (or proto-nationalistic) and there's certainly a good argument there and there were and are nationalists in modern times from those countries who adhere to those schools. But was there really any obstacle (beside geography, general anti-Buddhist sentiment, and opposition from existint Buddhist institutions) stopping these schools from spreading in other Buddhist countries, or at least Mahayana ones? Nichiren movements (Soka Gakkai at least) in modern times have spread globally and the 16th century Mongols adopted Tibetan Buddhism (the context IMO was different than 13th century Mongol patronage of Tibetan lamas). Was it impossible to have, say, Nichiren spreading in Korea or Truc Lam in China in premodern times? I mean at their core they have clear relations to existing schools.