Prince of Peace (edited) by Faeelin

Wow. This stuff is great.

What now? The Greeks are safe, but the Germans have been amassing wealth starting at precisely the wrong time in history to do so. I'll be disappointed if that's the end of Alexander's status as 'Prince of War'. And whatever happened to Italy? Years go by without anything seeming to happen.

I think now may be a good time for a second map. Of course, if borders are about to change drastically, that might not be as good an idea. :)
 

Faeelin

Banned
Admiral Matt said:
Wow. This stuff is great.

What now? The Greeks are safe, but the Germans have been amassing wealth starting at precisely the wrong time in history to do so.

Hehehe... You shall see.

I'll be disappointed if that's the end of Alexander's status as 'Prince of War'.

Indeed.

And whatever happened to Italy? Years go by without anything seeming to happen.

Perhaps it's me, but Italy just doesn't seem as interesting. Yet. There's a lot of long, drawn out sieges with no real changes.

I think now may be a good time for a second map. Of course, if borders are about to change drastically, that might not be as good an idea. :)
 
PP #30 Vipashyna [cont. of Faeelin's post]

"Real prayer needs no words, no gesture, no thoughts.A real prayer only
comes from the Lord."-Maravaraman Kulasekaran, founder of the faith of
Vipashyana.

Let us examine the religious set up. Crusaders have taken Egypt, Byzantium
is resurgent, and as in OTL the Almohads are collapsing. Pisans are leading
the way to the east, with interesting results in the Indies. It is, IMO,
entirely possible to have a timeline based off of this that has Christianity
be the world's major religion within a few hundred years and Islam and
Hinduism have ceased to be major world religions.

This, however, is not that timeline. Unlike He Who Must Not Be Named, I do
not view Islam as one of humanity's greater mistakes, and think that
Hinduism can have interesting things happen to it. So let us turn to India
in the first of several posts detailing the effects of a stronger Christian
presence in Outremer and in the Indian Ocean:

India is in a ferment, as Pisans lead the way to the East. The Kingdom of
Pandya is expanding, as in OTL, but faster, due to its emphasis on
mercantile activities and its position being ideal for Pisan traders
expanding. The Muslim control of the Indian Ocean is being heavily
contested, as Italians, Omanis, and even a few Hindu traders raid and trade
across the Ocean. The Cross and the Crescent wage a war at sea in an
entirely new theater, and a new player is about to enter the scene..

One of the results of the canal has been efforts to convert the peoples of
India. Heroes such as Peter of Romagna journey to Cape Comorin and minister
to pearl fishermen, converting twenty thousand natives. Some travel through
fearsome deserts and jungles, baptizing as they go. The effect on Hinduism
is dramatic, to say the least.

[Faeelin's post fills in this hole]

....When he returned to Madurai, he began preaching, in addition to his other
kingly duties. He derided caste, and openly clashed with the Brahmins. One
of his greatest sermons was the sermon outside the temple of Ahzgar Koil,
dedicated to Vishnu. There, sitting on the ground despite being a king, he
openly derided the caste system by explaining it in terms of pottery. . "God
used the same clay to make all of man, and though there the potter made many
vessels, all are of the same form, of the same clay, from the same potter."

Tanjore, 1247

The army of Pandya and Maravarman cheered as the catapault rocks smashed
into the walls. Archers on the wall poured down arrows, but to no effect.
The wall collapsed, and the army of Insight poured through.

Maravarman smiled as he looked on. "Glory to the creator, we have
triumphed," he cried. "Is this not pleasing, Peter of Romagna?"

The Franciscan priest looked on. "Perhaps to your, sire," he said in Tamil,
or a passable approximation.

Maravarman smiled and pointed at a flock of birds. "Do you see the vast
multitude? So many, so alike, yet so different. The flock changes, always,
but it is mostly the same."

Peter paused before responding. The Pandiyans never came out and said
something, so he thought about it. "But those who leave the flock are fated
to die," he said. "For there can be only one true path to arrive at their
destination."

Maravarman looked at him. "An odd thought. Do birds in Italy die if they
wander? In this land, they soar across the skies, and it matters not. For
they all will reach their destination, in time. "
 

Faeelin

Banned
“For some years I continued averse from mentioning this event, deeming it so horrible that I shrank from recording it and ever withdrawing one foot as I advanced the other. To whom, indeed, can it be easy to write the announcement of the death-blow of Islam and the Muslims, or who is he on whom the remembrance thereof can weigh lightly? O would that my mother had not born me or that I had died and become a forgotten thing ere this befell!

I say, therefore, that this thing involves the description of the greatest catastrophe and the most dire calamity (of the like of which days and nights are innocent) which befell all men generally, and the Muslims in particular; so that, should one say that the world, since God Almighty created Adam until now, has not been afflicted with the like thereof, he would but speak the truth. “
-Ibn Al-Athir, 1220

Imagine, dear readers, the following. America has been locked in a protracted struggle with the Soviets for fifty years. They take China, Japan, and Persia. Then states close to America itself go communist; Cuba, Mexico, Nicaragua.

And then, the unthinkable happens. A Soviet army devastates America’s military and occupies our heartland. From Chicago to Dallas, the hammer and sickle replaces the Stars and Stripes. Darkness has fallen over the continent.

If you can imagine a worse scenario, you are beginning to get an idea of the magnitude of the events of the last fifty years for Dar al-Islam. The Almohads are defeated in Spain; the Byzantines manage to slowly push back the Turks. And in Egypt, the heartland of Islam, a Frankish King rules over millions of Muslims. Truly, these are dark times for the Faithful.

The blame, of course, falls upon the Seljuks. Or on the Almohads. Or on decadent caliphs. In short, Islam is tearing itself apart.

And it is onto this stage that al-Nasir, Deputy of God, Caliph, enters the scene. A student of all four schools of Islamic law [113], he is also a member of the futuwwah (guilds), hoping to make himself their grandmaster.

Therefore, let us present the response of the Abbasids to the Emperor of Firanj.

Baghdad, 1205

Fakhr al-Din al-Razi knelt to the southwest, praying in the direction of Mecca. The mosques of Baghdad were glorious, like the jewels of God, strung throughout the city. He was getting up from his prayers when he was interrupted.

The Caliph, apparently, wished to have a word with him. And when the Deputy of God on Earth wished to have a word with Fakhr, to discuss his famous work the Eastern Studies, you didn’t didn’t say no.

Al-Naser was, as always, a gracious host. He presented gifts of cold and silk, and asked of his latest work. They discussed Ibn-Sina’s Kitab, and whether or not God was indeed merely intellect. Eventually, however, the Caliph got to the point.

“Tell me,†said Al-Naser. “What do you think of the tidings from the west?â€

Fakhr gulped down his cup of coffee, hoping it would steady him. (As you’d expect, it didn’t help). “It is terrible, most terrible. God has clearly sent the Firanji to punish us for our sins. To have Cairo and Alexandria in the hands of the Franks, to have pigs wander through the streets of our cities…. it is horrible.â€

Al-Naser paused to eat a stuffed date, thinking as he chewed. “So you would argue that the Ayyubids are causing fitna?†[114]

Fakhr al-Din laughed. “Certainly they have done something to bring the wrath of God down upon them.â€

â€And, as the deputy of God, it is my duty to fight until there is no more fitna, correct?â€

Fakhr nodded. “Well, yes, I suppose so.†He suddenly had a bad feeling about this.

“Well then!†said the Caliph, as he stood up. “What; you are saying is that I have a legal obligation to restore the authority of the Caliph to Damascus. Thank you for your wise counsel.â€

Fakhr stood up. “But surely you are aware that there are many places where there are troubles in the House of Islam?â€

Al-Naser’s smile was almost chilling. “And I shall fix them all.â€

Damacus, 1206

Al-Adil looked out beyond the walls. It was enough to make a man weep. If only, he had united the lands of Saladin sooner. If only he could have beaten the Franks.

There was no choice, then. Damascus was low on provisions. If the city revolted, Al-Adil would certainly die. So his only option was parley.

He prostrated himself before the Caliph. “I am your loyal servant, the slave of God, the Defender of the faithful, the-“

Al-Nasir cut him off. “If you are our defender, god save us from our enemies. Under you and your family, the Franks have devastated Islam. Still,†said the Caliph, as he looked over to his scribes, “What’s gone is past help, and what is past help is past grief. I shall be merciful to you. You may retire to Baghdad, and live in the palace with your family. Let the world know that I, Al-Naser, servant of God, Defender of the Faithful, protector of the Holy Cities, am merciful towards those who deserve it not. “

Al-Adil almost sputtered. “I am a prince!â€

“If you are a prince,†replied Al-Nasir, “there’s hope for every ape in Africa. You have an hour to ponder this, or I shall take Damascus by storm.â€

The city would be his within the hour.

Antioch, 1212

Raymond Roupen, King of Armenia [115] , Duke of Antioch, was an uneasy man. As one would expect, frankly, given his position. He was caught between the Kings of Jerusalem, the Emperor in Byzantium, and the Seljuk Sultan. His kingdom was small but prosperous, with crops of cotton, oranges, olives, and grains, all growing in abundance. Situated along the great trade routes to the east, his kingdom was, to observers, a land of milk and honey.

Which, of course, meant that everyone wanted it. And now that the house of Staufen was helping to revive Byzantium’s fortunes, his kingdom, he was afraid, would be surrounded.

On the other hand, his lands all bordered the sea. The Pisans and Venetians were great maritime powers; the Muslims would never possess a fleet, and he could handle the Greeks on his own.

He turned to a scribe. “Dispatch this letter to the Doge of Venice: Knowing that your ancient and majestic city seeks a way to restore its lost glories, and that my kingdom seeks an ally against the enemies of Christ, I, King Raymond of Armenia…..â€

The Yellow Palace, 1220

The Khan of Khans was not, to put it mildly, in a good mood. And one did not want to make the Great Khan angry. This was a man who would kill your entire family if you did so. Yet for some reason, the Sultan of Khwarizm had chosen to do just that.

The Khan of Khans had sent merchants to Otrar to trade. They had brought with them fine gifts such as white camel cloth, Chinese silk, silver bars, and raw jade. They had come in the hopes of making both sides rich with trade, hoping for trade so that “henceforth the abscess of evil thoughts may be lanced by the improvement of relations, and the pus of sedition and rebellion removed.â€

And yet when the caravan had entered Khwarizm, the governor had seized the goods and killed the merchants. When the Khan had demanded justice, the sultan rebuked the Khan by killing his envoys.

Meanwhile, Al-Nasir had thought of something, upon hearing about the events at Otrar. He had immediately dispatched an emissary to the Khan of Khans.

“Great Khan, we of the Faithful know that honesty is vital to a good and pious life. When you lose your honor, your life is done. We hold this to be our way, based on the teachings of Mohammed, who received his revelation from God himself. Honor is the jewel of our souls, making all else look dirt. Yet the Sultan of Khwarizm does not hold to this. He is a deceitful wine-bibbing pig eating son of a whore, he is the father of a donkey, and the devil is his companion [116].â€

“So we, on behalf of the Deputy of God, do invite you to join us in war against the Sultan of Khwarizm. Let us show the world what happens to those who have no honor.â€

[113] The Sha’fi, Hanafi, Maliki, and Hanbali.

[114] Fitna is a term that is normally used for a movement which disrupts the religious, social and political order. The occupation of Egypt, I think, qualifies as such.

[115] Although Armenia, in this sense, is actually Cilicia along the Mediterranean coast.

[116] A bit blunt, but they are talking to what everyone views as barbarians.
 
ah...politiking in Islamic lands....I like the introduction though. I was sad that you didn't continue with Fakhr al-Din's POV? I would have liked to seen what his affects on this TL is.

Oh and where the heck is Khwarizm?
 

Susano

Banned
Maybe you know it as Choresm (or Chorezm or Khwarizm or whatever - dozens of spellings).
Basically... Turkestan, with its centre at nowadays Uzbekistan.

Good post as always, Scott. As said, itll be interesting to see europes reaction as a new islamic force arises.
 

Faeelin

Banned
G.Bone said:
ah...politiking in Islamic lands....I like the introduction though. I was sad that you didn't continue with Fakhr al-Din's POV? I would have liked to seen what his affects on this TL is.

Oh and where the heck is Khwarizm?

Fakhr al-Din will be back.

And Khwarizm is roughly analogous to persia/central asia.
 
I guess what you're looking for is some way to keep Islam extant, and a force to be reckoned, despite everything that's happened? That's disappointing - it would have been nice to have Romans in Mesopotamia again. :)
 

Faeelin

Banned
Admiral Matt said:
I guess what you're looking for is some way to keep Islam extant, and a force to be reckoned, despite everything that's happened? That's disappointing - it would have been nice to have Romans in Mesopotamia again. :)

Bah! Bah I say! Islam is still in trouble.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Marrakesh, 1224

Yusuf II, Caliph of the Almohads, had been in many ways a weak man. He had never left Marrakesh, preferring to send his uncles and cousins to do fighting. He had stood by as the Christians of Spain stole land from the rightful rulers, the Faithful; and he had toyed with breeding cows in horses instead of training with swords. Many had agreed that his death, trampled by his own cows, was indeed fitting.

However, it left a problem. Yusuf had no children, and as the Almohads were ruled by a hereditary monarchy, this created problems. The vizier Uthman ibn Jami immediately gathered the Almohad laws, and they elected a senior member of the family, the great uncle of Yusuf, ‘Abd al-Wahid. He hoped to restore the fortunes of the Caliphate, and to put an end to the troubles in Al-Andalus. This upset, naturally, the governors there, who were afraid that he would take over their powers and replace them.

The lords of Al-andalus were led by Ibn Yujjan, and in the end of 1224 they took Seville. By the end of the year Abd al-Wahid was dead.

This in turn led to the replacement of the caliph with ‘Abd Allah, governor of Murcia. Which, of course, angered yet another faction in Al-Andalus. Abd Allah, former governor of Janen, moved to Baeza and made himself a vassal of Enrique I, King of Castille. Almohad attacks in 1225 are repulsed, and then things begin to get worse.

Seville, 1225

Yusuf the smith looked over the crowds outside the great mosque of Seville and knew what was at stake here. The Almohads had abandoned them. It was enough to make one drink wine! The Christians of Portugal were raiding the lands around Seville. The Almohad lords had betrayed them, leaving them to fend for themselves.

“People of Seville,†he cried. “For centuries we have been here, since the warriors of the Prophet took this land for the faithful. We have turned a desert into a garden, and we have prospered here. We are living in the greatest land of Dar al-Islam. And it is our doing, and something that no one,†he said, looking at the Almohad warriors, “can take away from us.â€

“But we have grown weak. We have turned into sheep, fat lambs to be ruled over by the wolves of Marrakesh. They promise protection and bring war; they promise government and bring impiety. They have failed us. â€

“We must,†he said, and corrected himself. “We shall make an attack on the enemy ourselves! Tomorrow!†he yelled.

“Tomorrow belongs to us!â€

The next day, the people of Seville prepared themselves for war. They left through their grand gate, and all Sevillians, from nobles to potters, from weaponsmiths to tinkerers, left to fight and defend their cities. They marched on Tejada, where the Christians were in great numbers. And they attacked. It was a grand and glorious gesture, as the people of Seville fought heroically for their city. No longer would they rely upon anyone else for their defense. It was up to them.

As they marched to the battle, Abu Mohammed, commander of the Almohad troops, tried to stop them. “Do not do this!†he yelled. “They will cut through you like a scythe through wheat!â€

Yusuf raised his sword in defiance. “They may do that to you, but not to us! This is our city. Leave it to us to defend, you pig eating son of a whore!â€

Abu stopped his horse in front of them. “You will all die,†he said. “And frankly, it pleases me to know that. “

If history has taught the reader anything, it is that no matter how great and glorious one’s cause is, one might still lose. And this is, sadly, what happened. The Christians were trained warriors, armed with coats of mail and swords of German steel, with horses. The Muslims were armed with only short swords and daggers. They were not trained in fighting war; until this time, there was no need.

The people of Seville fought bravely, none would deny. More than twenty thousand died that dark day, as they were slaughtered by the invaders. Men between eight and eighty fought that day, trying to defend their homes against raiders. Men between eight and eighty died.

It is in this dark land, where the people will die to defend their homes as Caliphs watch their land slip away, as traitors pay homage to the conquerors while the only defenders are among the poor. The tragedy is not that none will fight; the tragedy is that they do, and die. God, as always, favors big battalions.

It is against this background that Mohammed ibn Yusuf appeared on the scene. A descendent of the Hudids who had been the last rulers of Zaragoza, he was a regular soldier in the jund (an army unit) of Murcia. He would be the last great warrior of Al-Andalus. He would be the last Al-Sayyad.

[117] This is bad. OTL Enrique died in 1217.
 
So where does this:

[117] This is bad. OTL Enrique died in 1217

go?

and how in the heck did Yusuf expect cows to be breeded amongst horses? surely cloning hasn't been invented yet....

-Kind of sad that all the Sevilleians got slaughtered. How much will there be left of the Almohads to defend? Will the guy in Baghdad intervene?
 

Faeelin

Banned
G.Bone said:
So where does this:
go?

With a part that was cut out.

and how in the heck did Yusuf expect cows to be breeded amongst horses? surely cloning hasn't been invented yet....

Al-Andalus is indeed advanced. And it should read and.

-Kind of sad that all the Sevilleians got slaughtered. How much will there be left of the Almohads to defend? Will the guy in Baghdad intervene?

The Almohads are puritanical despots who are going down in flames as in OTL. Baghdad can do damn all about what's going on.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Ricote, Murcia, January 1225

Ibn Hud tossed his falcon into the sky, watching as it swooped down onto the hare. He looked at it, grimly. It was a bit like watching the Christians invading Al-Andalus. The hare ran and ran and ran, always trying to escape; but the hawk always caught it in the end.

Why should the Almohads rule Al-Andalus, anyway? What gave them the right to claim the title of caliph when it was clear that the true one resided in Baghdad? What was the point of making them lords of Al-Andalus if they couldn’t even beat the Christians? They were the ones who were ruining the garden of Islam. They were the ones who had let the Christians ride to Seville.

As Ibn Hud knelt down and prayed towards Mecca, he prayed, and decided to go on the hajj. When he returned, in the beginning of 1228, he was a changed man.

Murcia, May 1228

Abu ibn Abi Musa ibn Abd al-Mumin was lying in his harem with one of his concubines when word reached him. There was a revolt in the lands around the city, led by some fool claiming to be the last of the Hudids of Zaragoza.

â€You interrupted me for this?†he demanded of the messenger. “It is likely a mere bandit with delusions of grandeur.â€

“No,†said the messenger. “I have seen him with my own eyes, and he is more than that. He is coming for you, they say.†The messenger coughed discreetly. “Incidentally, I will soon be leaving this fair city to visit my family in Seville.â€

Abu grumbled a bit, but returned to what he was doing. Priorities, he decided, were always important.

The next day was the market day in Murcia, when farmers from all around the city came to visit it. As usual, there was grumbling, when the Almohad guards helped themselves to some of the produce. They particularly gave one man, who was a bit embarrassed, a great deal of trouble.

Initially the man was treated with a great deal of respect, for he had gone on the Hajj. Surely, the guards reasoned, this was a pious man. “What are you selling?†demanded one of the Almohad guards, looking at the barrels.

“Oh, just olive oil,†said the merchant. “Nothing of great value. I, am a man of modest means, you see.â€

The Almohad guards looked at one another. “Are you now? And yet you have completed the hajj? Commendable. Surely such a pious and honest man would not mind showing a bit of charity towards his protectors and share some of that oil with us?â€

Suddenly the man became nervous. He stepped off of his wagon, and walked towards the guards. “I do not think this is necessary,†he said. “You see, I am selling something that the governor demands I bring him.â€

The guard grunted. “We’ll see,†he said, as he opened the first jar.

“No!†said the merchant. “Get away!†he cried, as the guard looked twisted it open.

“Wine!†said the Almohad in shock. “Ah, I see. That pervert in the palace wanted wine, and forced you to bring it to him.†The guard made a sound of contempt. “Pass on, pass on.â€

Ibn Hud rolled with his wagons into the city. It was indeed fortunate that they had not checked the other barrels, containing weapons and armor for his followers who were already in the city.

That night, they crept into the palace of the Almohad governor. The servants from the city told them were to find the governor, smiling as they saw the swords.

Yet again the governor was in his chambers with another of his women. Ibn Hud stormed in, causing the governor to pass out. Ibn Hud took the wine that lay beside him and splashed it on the governor’s face. One of the warriors behind him fiddled with the wheels on his bow, and then aimed it at the governor.

“Get up,†he told Abu. “You shame us all by your cowardice.†Abu did as he was told, and was then tossed over the wall of the palace. Through the night, the agents of Ibn Hud attacked the Almohad guards where they slept, tossing the bodies into the moat.

As dawn rose, Ibn Hud, the last of the Hudids, ruled Murcia. A new time was beginning for Al-Andalus. But how to let the people know? He smiled, and called for his Kamanjoar Kaman [118].

The Almohads had always foolishly thought that music was wrong, as if something so glorious could offend God [119]. They had opposed using gaudy clothing, preferring the dark black that they wore. They shut their wives up, even on feast days.

Ibn Hud had walked that path, as had his land. But that was done with. As dawn rose over Murcia, and the people awoke to a new day, they could hear, faintly, the sound of music from the palace of the governor, played by the Emir al-Muslimin, servant of the Deputy of God, al-Naser.

Cordoba, July, 1228

Abdul Rabi, governor of Cordoba, looked at the mob. He laughed. “You dare to challenge me?†he shouted. “I am the sayyid of Cordoba, appointed by the supreme Caliph to rule over you. Return to your homes, rebels, and disperse!â€

A rock hit Abdul in the head, knocking him off of his horse. The mob surged forward, and yet another city joined the cause of Ibn Hud.


Cartagena, October, 1228

Giacomo Tiepolo, citizen of Venice, delegate of the Federation of Italy, stepped off of the boat and onto the dock. This muslim ruler, Al Sad, stepped off of his horse to meet him.

“I, Ibn Hud, Emir of the land you call Andalus, greet you,†said Ibn Hud in passable Cataln. “May your trade be profitable and safe.â€

Giacomo bowed before the Emir. “I, Giacomo Tiepolo, delegate of the Italian Federation, come to you in friendship,†he replied in Arabic.

The other junior delegate on this voyage spoke up. “That’s their ruler?†he said. “I thought they were ruled by the Caliph.â€

Giacomo muttered to him in Italian. “No, you fool, the Caliph is like the Pope to them. They honor him when it’s convenient. He looks like a king. Behold, his eye, as bright as the eagle's. I think we will be seeing more of this man.†He turned back to Ibn Hud. “We come seeking trade and offering our friendship.â€

Ibn Hud looked at the ship and considered. “You are most welcome here. Please, come to my humble abode in this city, that we might talk of what must be done.â€

Ibn Hud ordered his servants to retire and poured Giacomo a cup of wine and then poured himself one. Evidently this Moor was fond of wine, but that was no surprise. “It is always good to see ships not bearing the banner of Aragon,†he said.

Giacomo smiled. “I doubt you will see many of those for a long time to come,†he said, and told them of the great victory off of Sardinia.

Ibn Hud clapped his hands. “Praise be the High One! A pity their king did not join their fleet on the bottom of the bay. Word has it, you know, that they are going to sail against Tunis. Should a fleet happen to arrive there, it would be most unpleasant.â€

Giacomo considered briefly. To ally against Christians with Muslims? Could they do it? He thought for a second, and smiled. If Frederick invaded Hell, he would at least give a few prayers for the devil. “That is most interesting. But that is not why I am here.â€

Ibn Hud sipped his wine. “Trade is always welcome,†he said neutrally.

Giacomo nodded. “Of course. But we have, apparently, common enemies. The Kings of Castille, Leon, and Aragon are vassals of the Emperor of Rome, who seeks to enslave all Christians. To that end he has asked his subjects, the Franks, to join in the war against you.â€

“This Emperor,†said Ibn Hud, “seems to love wars. He fights you, and us?â€

â€And the Greeks, and the English, and his wife, for good measure.â€

Ibn Hud wasn’t quite sure who the English were, so he nodded. “And thus…â€

â€We offer you help,†said Giacomo. “Gold, swords, and armor.â€

Ibn Hud nodded. He knew where this was going. “And I, of course, would be most happy to let your merchants, whose industriousness is known throughout the world, trade in the cities along the coast of Al-Andalus.â€

Ibn Hud took a sip of the wine, and thought. Like most Andalusis, he thought himself a poet. “It seems to me that this Emperor attacks everyone around him, and thrashes about at all who anger him. He threatens us, yes. But you are a sailor, and know of fisherman. Think of us not as prey, but the fishmen with the net. We will trap him, in time.â€

Seville, November, 1228

The Caliph of the Almohads had left only a month ago, and Seville was in chaos. The urban patricians, wealthy merchants, had taken control of the city, but everyone knew that they could not defend it.

It was then that Ibn Hud, on a white horse, had ridden to the city. There, in the Grand Mosque of Seville, he had called for a public debate to decide the future of the city [119].

“We have lived for too long under the shadow of the warriors from across the straits. The Almohads, the Almovarids, all of them, were a disaster to us. We turned to them for protection, instead of doing it ourselves, and we paid the price. They were upstarts who took over our lands and ruined our country. And because of that, the Christians are going to take over our lands.â€

â€But you would make alliances with them!†shouted a voice. “We will not be their puppets!â€

“Of course I would!†said Ibn Hud. “Better that they kill each other than that we do. We fight their enemy, and they fight ours.â€

There were mutters of agreement in the crowd. The argument went on through the night, but, by dawn of the next day, the men of Seville agreed.

Abu Ammar, a member of a long established families of qadis, spoke for them. “We who are as good as you, swear to you, who are no better than us, to accept you as our lord and representative, provided that you observe all our laws and ways. But, if not, then not.â

[117] Think a violin.

[118] Although to be fair, they have mellowed out by this point. But Andalusis really hated them by 1230.

[119] Note that all of this, aside from the Italians, of course, is OTL. I admit to dramatizing situations in which sources are sketchy, however.
 
hey Faeelin- you gonna provide maps anytime soon? if not then i can help-

on another note;

>Is Al-Andalus basically the same size as OTL or a bit bigger? I know they had Morocco, W. Sahara, a chunk of Spain....

>Just exactly how strong is the Federation of Italy at this point? Have they managed to demark a frontier between them and pro-German kingdoms?

>>
The guard grunted. “We’ll see,†he said, as he opened the first jar.

“No!†said the merchant. “Get away!†he cried, as the guard looked twisted it open.

“Wine!†said the Almohad in shock. “Ah, I see. That pervert in the palace wanted wine, and forced you to bring it to him.†The guard made a sound of contempt. “Pass on, pass on.â€

Ibn Hud rolled with his wagons into the city. It was indeed fortunate that they had not checked the other barrels, containing weapons and armor for his followers who were already in the city.

----> This section sounds really....different from the character that was featured in the first paragraph and the rest of the section. Was this intentional?
----> And on the section of the 'weapons'- maybe you could summarize it with a sound of weapons clinking or something to that effect due to that entire paragraph sounding as if you are telling us rather than showing.

> Is Seville the northernmost city of the kingdom? If so, then how come there's people in it when everyone got slaughtered while defending it?

> Where the Hudids whacked off earlier on when the Almohads took power?
 

Faeelin

Banned
G.Bone said:
hey Faeelin- you gonna provide maps anytime soon? if not then i can help-

Ah, a reader.

>Is Al-Andalus basically the same size as OTL or a bit bigger? I know they had Morocco, W. Sahara, a chunk of Spain....

Al-Andalus is a reference to only southern spain, which varied in size. By this point it's about this big: http://history.smsu.edu/jchuchiak/HST 350--Theme 7-Maps_of_the_muslim_conquest_of_s.htm

Check the map dating to around
[quote>Just exactly how strong is the Federation of Italy at this point? Have they managed to demark a frontier between them and pro-German kingdoms?[/quote]

Lots of siege warfare along the borders in the alps. Bitter, bloody campaigns there. Sicily is sending troops, but becoming... different. (more on sicily in a bit).

[
----> This section sounds really....different from the character that was featured in the first paragraph and the rest of the section. Was this intentional?

In this section, he's sneaking about to get weapons into the city. I daresay he'd act differently. [/quote]

----> And on the section of the 'weapons'- maybe you could summarize it with a sound of weapons clinking or something to that effect due to that entire paragraph sounding as if you are telling us rather than showing.

Anyone else not understand this? Anyone else reading?

Is Seville the northernmost city of the kingdom? If so, then how come there's people in it when everyone got slaughtered while defending it?

Those were raiders.

> Where the Hudids whacked off earlier on when the Almohads took power?[/QUOTE]
 
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